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Billy Dee Williams's Two-Face: The Unmade Plans (with John Hefner/About Faces)

In honor of Two-Face’s 80th anniversary this year, we cover the Two-Face who never was: Billy Dee Williams! We dive into the deleted material for Harvey in Batman 1989, the REAL deleted plans for him in Batman Returns (he was never Max Shreck), and discuss his characterization in Sam Hamm’s Batman 89 comic series with Two-Face expert John Hefner from About Faces!


0:13 Episode Introduction- Two-Face's 80th Anniversary

We previously had John on the show to discuss the obscure comic strip that tangentially tied into Batman 1989, as well as our interview with the writer Bill Messner-Loebs:

He also joined us for our Halloween discussion last year on if The Long Halloween was overrated:

2:40 What Two-Face Means to John Hefner

9:34 Thoughts on Two-Face in Batman Forever & The Dark Knight

17:11 Harvey Dent in Sam Hamm's 1986 Batman Script

You can read Hamm's script here:

Hamm's reveal that he drew off of Two-Face's origin for his Joker comes from here:

25:17 The Casting of Billy Dee Williams- Was Anyone Else Up for the Role?

Billy Dee having only signed a one picture deal comes from here:

Tim Burton's comments about casting Billy Dee in his director's commentary come from here:

Billy Dee Williams's comments about modeling his Harvey after Adam Clayton Powell comes from here:

40:12 What Roles Show Billy Dee Could Have Pulled Off Two-Face?

50:01 Break

Check out our link for Barkbox here.

53:09 Return from Break- Sam Hamm's Two-Face Origin Idea with Jack Nicholson's Joker

The fan art of Billy Dee Williams's Harvey prosecuting Jack Nicholson's Joker has been shown on the podcast before and comes from our patron Logan Wood. You can check out his work at

1:00:11 Harvey Dent's Role in Batman Returns (and NOT Being Max Shreck)

We debunked Max Shreck being Harvey Dent in this video essay:

Daniel Waters himself joined in to debunk it in the opening of our episode with him here:

1:05:21 Was Billy Dee Williams Ever Actually In Consideration for Batman 3/Batman Forever?

We debunked the legendary Batman Continues rumor here:

1:11:29 Billy Dee In The Lego Batman Movie

1:13:57 Batman 89 Comic Series & Why Its Two-Face is Fantastic (Spoilers)

We covered the Easter Egg connections of Billy Dee Williams's Two-Face to other iterations in our video series here:

1:41:15 Final Thoughts on Billy Dee Williams's Harvey & What We'd Like to See with Two-Face in the Movies

1:51:58 Fan Comments

2:01:44 Closing: Fan Shoutouts and Social Media Promotion

THANKS TO OUR OTHER GUEST, JOHN HEFNER/ABOUT-FACES. John worked with us in coming up with the questions.

Big thanks to our research assistant Dan Yamat for providing the visuals for this YouTube experience, as well as the usual QC and chapter time codes.

Thumbnail by Dan as well

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