Search

The UNMADE Versions of The Riddler- Who is Lyle Heckendorf? (Countdown To The Batman)

Updated: Feb 25


Continuing the lead-up to The Batman, we’re covering the unmade versions of The Riddler. Learn about which 1966 Batman episodes were originally meant for Frank Gorshin’s Riddler, dive into the original version of the Batman Forever Riddler- Lyle Heckendorf- that was written for Robin Williams, and peek at Jim Lee’s redesign for the Riddler for Zack Snyder’s unmade Justice League 2.


Featuring an introduction by voice actor Wally Wingert, who voiced The Riddler in the Arkhamverse video games.


CHAPTERS

0:00 Wally Wingert (The ArkhamVerse Riddler) Introduction

This introduction was recorded for us by Wally himself in our interview with him in 2020, which you can check out here:




0:33 Episode Introduction & Co-Host News

You can send your congrats to Zack here: https://www.instagram.com/p/CZ1_sAEl8JT/?utm_medium=copy_link


2:50 The Gorshin-Less Batman 66 Episodes: The Puzzler & The OTHER Riddler

Here are the sources on the drama behind Frank Gorshin's absence from Season 2 and his replacements in Maurice Evans's The Puzzler and John Astin's Riddler.

https://www.66batmania.com/bios/villains/the-riddler-john-astin/

https://www.66batmania.com/bios/villains/the-riddler-frank-gorshin/

https://www.66batmania.com/bios/villains/the-puzzler/


15:39 The Riddler Clown: The Burton-Hickson Batman Treatment (1985)

Here's Julie Hickson and Tim Burton's Batman treatment dated October 21, 1985 (available if you have a Scribd subscription).


17:39 The Riddler Reference in Daniel Waters's Original Batman Returns Script



You can check out Daniel Waters's original Batman 2 script here: https://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/batman-returns_early.html


19:31 Robin Williams as The Riddler


Batman Forever screenwriters Lee and Janet Scott Batchler were on our show and discussed how Robin Williams was originally the studio and Joel Schumacher's choice for the Riddler until a salary dispute led to WB pursuing Jim Carrey instead:

We used clips of this interview for a video essay debunking the rumors of Williams being Tim Burton's choice for a darker Riddler movie, which wasn't the case:


Here's Logan Wood's art for the episode:








32:08 The Batman Forever Novelization: The Young Edward-Bruce Connection


We covered the Batman Forever novelization by Peter David here and went into more details on how it expanded on what was in the movie and the original scripts:


34:00 Lyle Heckendorf & The Deleted Riddler Scenes from Batman Forever

We covered the original scripts of Batman Forever in more detail in this episode here:

Check out the original script by the Batchlers: https://ia800107.us.archive.org/21/items/Batman3ScriptProductionDraftAkivaGoldsman/Batman%203%20script%20Early%20Draft%20The%20Batchlers.pdf


As well as the Akiva Goldsman revision: http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/batman_forever.html


Our research assistant, Dan, found several instances of Riddler concept art:

https://propstore.com/mobile/product/batman-forever/printed-concept-artwork-characters-and-locations/

https://www.yourprops.com/The-Riddler-Inventions-3-original-production-artwork-Batman-Forever-1995-YP806180.html


James Carson did the concept art for the deleted scene of Nygma using the Box on his landlady:

https://www.yourprops.com/The-Riddler-Inventions-2-original-production-artwork-Batman-Forever-1995-YP806160.html

https://propstore.com/mobile/product/batman-forever/printed-concept-artwork-riddlers-prototype-neural-receptor/


Carlos Huante did the concept art of Riddler with the magenta hair that Logan revised into being the Robin Williams Riddler:

https://www.1995batman.com/2019/01/concept-art-costumes.html


51:52 Break Check out our link for Barkbox here.

53:48 The Return of Jim Carrey's Riddler- Batman Unchained


We covered the truth behind those Batman 5 rumors in this video essay, debunking the title Batman Triumphant and discussing the actual project, Batman Unchained, written by Mark Protosevich:


55:00 The Unmade Riddler Appearances in The DC Animated Universe


The Matt Wayne interview about the Bat-embargo preventing Riddler came from this article:

https://dcanimated.com//WF/jlu/backstage/interviews/wayne01.php

[...] we couldn't use Scarecrow or Riddler [...]

59:48 Unused Concept Art for The Riddler in The Batman (2004)


The Riddler concept art that got turned into the Cluemaster was originally on the site Legions of Gotham and was saved here: https://d3dfsf9oc1ojzp.cloudfront.net/original/4X/0/b/1/0b1b4eed327e03998fcc832724c809f95361c8db.jpeg


The concept art of the bald Riddler with the question mark forehead came from Batman: The Definitive History of The Dark Knight in Comics, Film, and Beyond by Andrew Farago and Gina McIntyre, which you can purchase here. We also interviewed Andrew Farago on our podcast shortly after our dive into the Kane treatment.


1:03:17 Leonardo DiCaprio: WB's Choice for Riddler

David Goyer's quote about WB wanting Leonardo DiCaprio as the Riddler comes from here:

“It’s gonna be The Riddler, and we want it to be Leonardo DiCaprio…,”

https://www.indiewire.com/2012/06/warner-bros-apparently-wanted-leonardo-dicaprio-as-the-riddler-in-dark-knight-rises-early-on-109997/


1:05:18 Why Mr. Reese in The Dark Knight ISN'T The Riddler


1:06:49 The Riddler in the Snyderverse/DCEU


The image of the Riddler shirt from Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice comes from here: https://dcextendeduniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Riddler?file=Riddler_Shirt_-_Batman_V_Superman.jpg


The file on Killer Croc with Riddler's name from Suicide Squad comes from here:

https://dcextendeduniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Amanda_Waller%27s_top_secret_file?file=Waller%2527s_files_-_KillerCroc.jpeg


The image of Jim Lee's redesign comes from the exhibit on the Snyderverse that arrived when the Snyder Cut was released. We covered Snyder and Chris Terrio's plans for the sequels here:

The Jim Lee image of Riddler comes from here:

https://dcextendeduniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Riddler?file=TheRiddler.jpg


1:13:16 The Riddler/Edward Nashton in The Batman


The reports about Jonah Hill come from this article: https://variety.com/2019/film/news/jonah-hill-the-batman-passes-1203373471/


The Inverse article that we poked fun of, on being worried about the name Edward Nashton, comes from here:

https://www.inverse.com/article/60227-paul-dano-riddler-the-batman-movie-edward-nashton-nygma


1:22:26 Favorite Tidbit?


1:29:39 Fan Comments


The statue of the blue Lewis Wilson Batman comes from here:

https://hakes.com/Auction/ItemDetail/216728/LEWIS-WILSON-AS-BATMAN-CUSTOM-FIGURE-PAIR-BY-TERRY-REYNOLDS


1:37:08 Closing: Fan Shoutouts and Social Media Promotion


Big thanks to our research assistant Dan Yamat for taking over thumbnail duties from Zack, as well as providing the visuals and doing the usual QC and time code chapter duties.


Big thanks to Logan Wood for the Riddler art that was used in the thumbnail. You can check out his art at: https://www.instagram.com/shanehelms121/

Please record us a “bumper” saying “You’re listening to Superhero Stuff You Should Know” and send it over to superhousepodcast@gmail.comAlso to any animators- we’d love to see our sketches animated. Please include #SuperheroStuffYouShould Know IN the video


Become a part of the Shasta Army on our Patreon page:

https://www.patreon.com/m/superherostuffpod


SuperHouse on iTunes: https://apple.co/3ctz4lN


Please leave us a review in iTunes!


SuperHouse on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2yq3Kpo


INSTAGRAM: @superherostuffpod


TWITTER: Twitter.com/SuperhousePod


FACEBOOK: Facebook.com/SuperHousePod


Please join our Facebook group where you can interact with us and other fans!


YOUTUBE: YouTube.com/c/SuperHousePodcast


Please email us at: SuperHousePodcast@gmail.com


ANDREW’S CHANNEL/WEBSITE:


IG: ThunderWolfDrew


Twitter: ThunderWolfDrew


YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/thunderwolflives


Website: www.thunderwolfdrew.com/


BEN'S CHANNEL/WEBSITE:


IG: BenWanWriter


My Cat’s IG: AlfiePennyworthCat


YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6nG7A354pour2CUw0co3Ug


Website: http://www.benwanwriter.com ZACHARY JACKSON BROWN


IG: @zacharyjacksonbrownart

https://www.zacharyjacksonbrownart.com/


SUPERHOUSE MERCH: http://superhousepod.redbubble.com/

Teepublic

Threadless

44 views0 comments